RV LIFE Podcast
The RV LIFE Podcast, created by one of the premier companies in the RV industry, is for the RV Community with a mission to Educate, Entertain and Explore the RV Lifestyle. The Podcast will explore all things RV Life: living, working, exploring, learning. With host Patti Hunt, full time RVers, content creators, educators and explorers.
RV LIFE Podcast
The Ultimate Guide to RV Park Ownership: Real Advice from Experts
In this jam-packed episode I (Patti Hunt) take a deep into the world of campground ownership with a panel of seasoned experts. From financial planning and land development to daily operations and long-term strategies, this conversation uncovers the realities and rewards of owning and running an RV park. Whether you are dreaming of owning a campground or just curious about how these vacation havens come to life, this episode offers a rare behind-the-scenes look with tips, tales, and takeaways you won't want to miss. Guests include Amie Mersmann of Mersmann Consulting Group, Chase Becker of Open Road Resorts, Wes Henderson of Talona Ridge RV Resort, and Sonya Zacker & Maurice Gilmore of Clayton Park RV Escape.
Amie Mersmann - Mersmann Consulting Group (MCG)
Chase Becker & Jim Omstrom - Open Road Resorts
Wes Henderson - Talona Ridge RV Resort
Sonya Zacker & Maurice Gilmore - Clayton Park RV Escape
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Have you ever dreamed of owning a campground? I'm Patti Hunt and you're listening to the RV Life Podcast. What is one thing you wish everyone knew before they started thinking about starting a campground?
Speaker 2:The most important thing is it probably costs more than you expect. All the infrastructure and the utilities that you don't see underground on the beautiful RV sites cost a ton of money. So pre-planning and being ready for that from the beginning is always really, really helpful.
Speaker 1:And today we are going to cover all things campground ownership from breaking ground to thinking about that time where you might be looking to sell, if you're actually considering being a campground owner or you're just curious, this episode will have real stories, big lessons, great tips. You don't want to miss this. Now a little bit about me. Four years ago, my husband, dan, decided it'd be a great idea to sell everything we own and get in an RV full time. The funniest part of this was I had only been in an RV for seven nights prior to this suggestion, so at first I thought it was crazy, and then after about I I gotta admit only after about two months I said what the heck? And I jumped in with both feet. We were on the road for over three years full time, and I have to say it was one of the most incredible experiences I've ever had. Now, a year ago, life changed for us because Dan became ill and is now in a nursing home. So I had to reinvent myself, and that meant a solo podcaster and a solo traveler. But I am not going to miss out on the campground experience that I love so much. Now I just go by car or plane. I've stayed in cabins, I've stayed in yurts, I've stayed in retro RVs and this year my plan is to stay in a beautiful tiny home. We'll talk more about that and explore the RV lifestyle, with the mission to inspire you to live life to the fullest. Talking about incredible campgrounds, open Road Resorts has six incredible parks in Idaho, nebraska, new Mexico, two in Texas and their newest park is AB Camping and RV Park in Cheyenne, wyoming. They are open and ready to take bookings and they are planning to upgrade and make expansions. All six of these parks are highly favored by you, the RVer. If you go to campgroundsrvlifecom, you could see what your fellow RVers are saying about these six incredible parks and why they are highly favored parks. Also, check them out on OpenRoadResortscom.
Speaker 1:Now for my listeners, this episode is very different. I have six people. There are six of us on this episode, seven if you count my producer and we are coming in from six different locations. So this is going to be a very different podcast episode, but we're going to journey down this road of RV campground ownership and I want to start by introducing you to my guests ownership.
Speaker 1:And I want to start by introducing you to my guests and I'm going to start with Amy Mercerman, president of Mercerman Consulting Group MCG for short and she has about 27 years of professional experience, including over 19 years of experience in planning, development and management for the outdoor hospitality industry. Amy specializes in strategic business planning, market analysis, economic modeling, financial analysis, marketing and branding, resort and facility operations and event management. She was introduced to the industry by working directly for a high-end RV resort as a marketing and sales director and then transitioned into consulting, providing services to clients in 38 US states and internationally. Welcome, amy to the RV Life Podcast. Thank you, it's a pleasure to be here. I am so excited to have you here. Tell my listeners why the campground industry.
Speaker 2:Well, it sort of happened by life. My husband moved me to the middle of nowhere, east Texas, and I thought, what in the world am I going to do? And I applied for the position at Mill Creek Ranch in Canton, texas, and the general manager happened to be Bud Searles. I consider him a legend in the industry. He worked for many national and state parks and just a visionary, and so it was just a true learning experience and a joy to work with him. He passed away about five years ago, so the team stuck together and I've just been doing it since and I can't imagine a life, you know, without this industry. So I love what I do.
Speaker 1:And that I think is so important really truly loving what you do and I felt that when we talked several times we had conversations and we're going to hear more from you for sure. Let's introduce Chase Becker. He is the co-founder and co-president of Open Road Resorts. Chase has many years of experience at several hedge funds, including groups covering a wide array of companies in the RV, power sports, gaming, lodging, leisure and restaurant industries. Chase was previously vice president in the equity research department and Chase was a native of Scottsdale, arizona, but now lives in Dallas, texas, with his wife and two daughters, his business partner, who could not be with us today, jim Armstrong, is also co-founder and co-president of Open Road Resorts. Chase, welcome to the RV Life podcast.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having me, patty, pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1:It is great having you. We have been connected for well over two years and it is awesome to have you on Now. If my listeners caught on, open Road Resorts was mentioned in the beginning of the podcast with their six highly favored parks. But, chase, both you and Jim were in the finance world. What were those first conversations, the two of you? What are those first conversations where you think campground ownership is a good idea?
Speaker 3:It's a good question. We always joke that one of us was going to have a midlife crisis first and I was the first one to have it. So no, we were fortunate to get exposure to the RV space in our previous jobs, where we invested in the public companies like Camping World and Thor Lippard, so we had an appreciation of why people were buying RVs. But I was looking to do something different after a number of years and ultimately never had looked at it from the real estate side and kind of went down the rabbit hole and thought it was fascinating and have learned a lot and it's been a great adventure so far. So a lot to learn. Still Interested to hear what everybody else has to say and learn from others.
Speaker 1:That sounds great and I know we're also going to learn from you. I have had the pleasure of being at one of your campgrounds, so I know firsthand the kind of commitment, the kind of properties that you look to create. We're going to talk more about that, okay. Wes Henderson is the CEO of Tolona Ridge RV Resort in East Ellijay, georgia, a premier RV destination he designed, built and has managed for the past three years with his father and brother.
Speaker 1:With a bachelor's degree in international business and economics, wes brings over a decade of experience in multifamily and commercial real estate, gained through his involvement in his family's business. He also spent three years as a teacher, further shaping his leadership and communication skills. I could totally relate to that. Years as a teacher further shaping his leadership and communication skills I could totally relate to that, having been a teacher. Wes is passionate about bringing ambitious projects to life from the ground up. He continues a strong foundation in research, with a keen eye for agricultural design, and thrives on assembling the right teams and investing in people to turn vision into reality. His work at Tolona Ridge reflects his commitment to quality, innovation and community, and he is married to his lovely wife, abigail. Welcome to the RV Life podcast, wes.
Speaker 4:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:So background in commercial real estate. Why didn't?
Speaker 2:you.
Speaker 1:You built this campground. We've talked many times literally from the ground up why campground ownership?
Speaker 4:We actually we kind of got sucked into it by accident, if you will. We had actually bought land across the street from where Tolona Ridge sits and we had heard that someone was going to do a campground on this piece of property and I actually thought it was going to hurt our value of what our plans were from across the street. So I can't stress the amount of no knowledge and no information that we dove ourselves into this industry. It's been a wild but an amazingly fun ride, and so when I first heard the word luxury RV resort, I laughed at that. I was like there's no such thing as a luxury RV resort. And then I Googled it that night and I went oh, I stand corrected, there absolutely is such thing as a luxury RV resort, and the more we had, the more we studied this land that we purchased, the more it just screamed this needed to be outdoor hospitality, even though we had never done anything hospitality related in our lives. So that's how we got into it.
Speaker 1:Okay, so it sounds like a lot of learning as you went along, and I can't wait for you to share all the ups and downs with my and you to share all the ups and downs with my, and I'm sure there were ups and downs with my listeners, okay.
Speaker 1:Sonia Zachar and Maurice Gilmore are the proud co-owners and operators of Clayton Park RV Escape, a seasonal lakeside RV park nestled along Lake Henry in the Pocono Mountains of northeastern Pennsylvania. And just before I got on the call because I am outside of Philadelphia in Pennsylvania, I found out you are a two-hour drive from me, so we are neighbors and I am going to come see you guys. Oh good. Together they blend a shared passion for nature, community and hospitality into every corner of the park. Sonia holds a bachelor's degree in computer information systems with a minor in business, and spent over a decade as an auditor and technical writer. She also studied fine art at Keystone College and brings creative energy to the park. And her greatest inspiration were her parents.
Speaker 1:Maurice earned his bachelor's degree in environmental science and built a long career as a quality safety and environmental professional. Primarily nuclear facilities across the US Well, that aligns with campgrounds. Clear facilities across the US Well, that aligns with campgrounds. His strong background in environmental stewardship aligns naturally with the couple's commitment to maintaining a peaceful and scenic park environment. Together, sonia and Maurice strive to create a welcoming, family-friendly escape where tradition, tranquility and the beauty of outdoors come together. Escape where tradition, tranquility and the beauty of outdoors come together. Welcome Sonia and Maurice to the RV Life Podcast.
Speaker 6:Thank you so much. We're so glad to be here.
Speaker 1:I'm glad to have you. Please share with my listeners your story. What was the conversation? And this was 19 years ago that you started this campground. What was the conversation? How did that start?
Speaker 6:It was like raising a child 19 years old, and it has been a lot of learning and it really is kind of, I mean, I guess now it's off to college. So we did not expect to do this. This was not part of our plan. We actually were working overseas and we got evacuated from a place called Wake Island, if anybody knows where that's at and it was supposed to be temporary. But we came back and stayed with my parents because our house was rented out and I found out they were in some trouble and we said how can we help?
Speaker 6:So here we are, all these years later, and the park has undergone a lot of changes, but it has really good bones and we thought it was worthwhile to save it. I knew it had been in my family for a long time, but I didn't know it was in my family, the property itself for 160 years. So that's I'm kind of the bearer of the torch now, so, but I, you know it wasn't always a campground, but it started as a farm, but eventually my ancestors started renting boats and here we are today with an RV park and he just is along for the ride. There you go. He does a really good job of supporting me.
Speaker 1:And I cannot wait to hear more about this, for you to share with my listeners, this journey, 19 years at this campground. We are going to hear more about that. Thank you for sharing your story. Thank you all for sharing your stories. I'd love for my listeners to hear about the journey and how it started, and everybody's got a cool story. So now my listeners are curious or thinking about starting a campground, and I'm going to start with you, amy. This is really your. Tell us a little bit more about your business. You and I have had a number of incredible conversations. I have asked you several times of what your business side of it does, and there's a lot to it that I couldn't even keep track of. So give my guests an overview of what you do to help people start a campground, even going through the process of. Does it even make sense?
Speaker 2:Our company specializes in outdoor hospitality and our services range from land selection so you know we can help clients decide if a property is suitable or not. If they have the property, we can conduct a suitability analysis. We'll let them know. Yes, no, here's why, Once property is selected, we offer feasibility studies so that design component, coupled with the business plan, that's utilized for loans or investors or anything needed future planning. From there we offer consulting through regulatory permitting and construction. We offer startup marketing and operations services.
Speaker 2:So just the minute the shovel hits the ground we're in marketing and operations, getting everyone ready to open. So after grand opening we can hand you the key and then be available as needed for consulting services. And that applies to we've got a group of clients, you know, looking to acquire RV parks and resorts. So you know it's similar process. We help them with the due diligence and then it kind of goes into that startup analyzing, you know, the current situation and operations and staffing and marketing and then transitioning to the new ownership and then expansion as well. Clients will come to us. I've got actually in Georgia this weekend we're going to go visit a really beautiful glamping site looking to expand. So you know we'll evaluate the property and work with the client to get them where they need to be. But yeah, a wide range of services but a lot of fun Wow.
Speaker 1:Yes, and there's, as somebody already said, there's so much more to it than we even, certainly, than I even realized, I know. For me, owning a campground is probably not what I want to do, but I no longer never say never anymore. So who knows? But each of you on the call so Wes, chase, sonia, maurice, you kind of had a very different start, so I want each of you to kind of chime in. So for you, chase, why did you decide to acquire campgrounds that already existed, and is there any thoughts of building your own from the ground up?
Speaker 3:Maybe you're not ready to share that, I don't know, coming from a finance background, I think you know knowing what you don't know is really important and, frankly, when I first started I really didn't know anything about the operational side, nor did I know anything about the development side. I'm interested to hear what Wes has to say. Just because we've actually never built anything from scratch or I kind of our model has been to go in and acquire existing campgrounds and good locations that maybe we can spruce up and improve operations, maybe add some amenities, add some additional rv sites, and so you know, in one say, in one sense it almost feels like kind of cheating a little bit relative to what west did. Um, and and uh, it's funny with, with, with west, our actual, um, our, our general managers that are red rock park, just outside of yellowstone, they were telling me earlier this week they actually stayed at his park. They're like, oh, you got to see this park.
Speaker 3:So, uh, you know not, not having the ability to build from scratch, I think, certainly means that you can't do everything the way that you'd want to do it. Um, so, but frankly, it's probably a good thing that we didn't start out building from scratch, because we would have made a lot of costly mistakes. So, um, I, we do have the opportunity to do a greenfield in the dfw area. It's been something we've been exploring. That's a market where I live and I feel comfortable potentially doing that, or I guess as comfortable as I'm going to get. We've got some smart people surrounding us that are going to, you know, hopefully make that, you know, possible. That's not really going to be me, but yeah it's. It's been an interesting ride for sure. So we've been fortunate with what we've got with the existing campgrounds and had an opportunity to expand those. But yeah, I'd like to hear from Wes on this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'm going to give it to Wes. So you built from the ground up. You were thrown into it because you were afraid somebody would do something else. That was a great story. So, yeah, talk about what that was like.
Speaker 4:Well, it was these projects. They seem so easy on an Excel spreadsheet and then when you're standing there going, I'm going to put some concrete pads down, I'm going to put a little building here for a welcome center and, bing bang, bop, call it a day. And that was, of course, not the case. I love what you said before. These things always will cost a lot more money than you ever think they will, especially if you're building it from the ground up. But what saved us I think what our secret sauce was is because we did not come from hospitality and because we had no idea about the RV world. We approached it that way, and so we started out gathering as much information as we could.
Speaker 4:There was some luck involved. We were in the process of offloading our old multifamily portfolios and we were repositioning as a company, and so we had some staff that we were able to do focus groups with. I took a lot of RVers all kinds of different types of RVers out to dinner and just got them to talk, and we were recording all the conversations, jotting down all the notes. All kinds of different types of RVers out to dinner and just got them to talk, and we were recording all the conversations, jotting down all the notes, and we kind of put the pieces of the puzzle together that in our area, laj and this particular site was screaming a destination RV resort. And from there because we wanted to go more premium, because our views were phenomenal, we originally started out more towards the deeded lot concept and that was going to be our plan. But the more focus groups we were running, the more we started learning about the RV industry and the more we start looking at our site. We decided to swap back and decided that our mission was going to be a destination, premier destination RV resort built to the specs of what you'd see at a deeded lot site. But we wanted that to be full rental and open to all the different types of RVs that were out there.
Speaker 4:But the construction there were parts of it that were absolutely grueling and there is a spaghetti of sewer and water and power and fiber internet running through a rocky, massive limestone slash, blue granite site. We had to blast our way through getting our infrastructure in. But having your definition set from the beginning is key. Set from the beginning is key. Otherwise, when you get to the spot, when you're going to spend about $300,000 on just trees and you're going. How is this going to return value on Excel? And it's a hard thing to quantify, but you know you're trying to get towards the destination RV site. You're going to stay committed until the end to make sure all those finer details are as perfect as they can be for the guest experience.
Speaker 4:We ended up doing a lot of the construction aspects ourselves. We had subs but, for instance, power. When it came to run power, this was during COVID, so there was sand shortages. Don't know how we got to that spot, but that existed for a minute. So, as the concrete was tricked before the concrete was trickling in to run our power, our, we had a contractor that was slow to show up because he lost half his labor force and on a project this scale, if you sit for a month to two months, that can be financially detrimental. So what do you do? You sign a waiver with the power company and you go all right, if I zap myself, I'm liable for it and you're free to charge. And you get in there and you run your power.
Speaker 1:I can't even imagine.
Speaker 4:Oh yes, I've got four iPhones and several pairs of shoes buried underneath some of these pads in our history of building this place. And then being able to make field changes on these things is incredibly, incredibly important when you're when you're standing there and you realize that your RV pad needs to be tilted a few more degrees to the left so that a uh, uh, a a 45 foot fifth wheel could be able to back up without having to be at an angle is is key. So, when you're building these things, being able to back up without having to be at an angle is key. So, when you're building these things, being able to make those quick field changes is incredibly, incredibly important, which means you've got to have a really good relationship with the city or municipality you're working with and that, from what I can see, that can also be a hurdle, because there's still a lot of eyebrows that raise when you say I'm building an RV park.
Speaker 1:Right, which would seem to me to make it just a little bit easier if they already exist. So you take some of that out of there. So much here, and again I've looked at pictures of your park. I plan on coming down there and visiting. It is amazing looking and starting from scratch. So obviously we have two different thoughts here on existing and non-existing. We could do pros and cons of both and we're going to talk about how you guys feel about it after the fact. But, sonia and Maurice, you kind of fell into it, it was there, it was existing. Reese, you kind of fell into it, it was there, it was existing. Tell us how that beginning went. What were some of the challenges and some of the things that maybe were easier?
Speaker 6:because it did already exist for a long time it did, and it was kind of developed in pieces. My parents and my parents got the property in the 50s and at that time it was pretty much just a boat livery. You know, people would come fishing and they had like a little grove where they would do clam bakes and things like that. And somebody brought along a tent and the rest became history. But the park was kind of developed in little pieces. So I remember my dad saying you know he didn't really know much about developing an RV park. What kind of resources were there for them in the 50s? Not really a lot. You just kind of did what you thought you needed to do. So he went to a nearby park and looked at how they had set things up and so he kind of went by that. But in those days, and primarily I think, a lot of the park was developed. You know, as far as the number of sites were developed, like in the 60s and 70s, and RVs back then were, you know, 25 feet. So we had how many two or three sites that actually had 15 amp breakers, wow, which was hard to believe.
Speaker 6:And it was really the beginning. Part of it was really chaotic and hectic because it wasn't something we planned on doing. It was more of an emotional decision because it was where I grew up and I didn't want to see it go away, and so we just kind of hacked away at things piece by piece and eventually we saw the value in joining our state organization and in joining our national association organization and in joining our national association there wasn't a whole lot of time for us back in those days because we both worked full-time positions in addition to doing this. So he would take contract work and go you know wherever in the country and I had a full-time job in DC metro area and so I would commute back and forth between between the two places.
Speaker 6:So a lot of it was, you know, understanding what we needed to be doing.
Speaker 6:You know talking with people from the regulation side of things, getting to know, you know who we needed to know um, finding out, you know what it was going to take to do what we needed to do Um, and we didn't I mean we didn't have the background that some of the folks coming into the industry have now Um.
Speaker 6:So it was really a pretty big challenge for us just the management part of it and a lot of our struggle was we had to do a lot of the work ourselves or hire people, and so you're so busy sometimes in the weeds that you can't be where you need to be to be managing it properly. So we've certainly made our share of mistakes, and I totally understand when someone was saying you know, you put an RV pad in and then you're like, oh, it just needs to be turned a little bit, or you know whatever it is, and it seems like, oh well, that's not that big of a deal, but it turns out to be a big deal that big of a deal, but it turns out to be a big deal, right.
Speaker 5:Well, it was really interesting how we kind of adjusted to what the situation was. We knew nothing about branding a company or finding employees or anything else, so we found it wasn't just important to get the right employees and people that you could trust to do what needed to be done and were capable of doing what needed to be done, but it was also really important, we discovered, pretty quickly, to make sure that the people that you're bringing in are also the type of people you want. In your backyard there's actually some screening, that's done. We meet everybody. We make sure that they want to be here, that this is where they want to be, because the park kind of branded itself After years. We wanted a quiet place, we wanted a safe place, we wanted a beautiful place, and we've aimed for all of those particular ideals and it's come together pretty well. Did you want to say something?
Speaker 6:Well, I think, because he's talking about the camper side of things, I think you, as as new owners, I think one of the the things that and you certainly want to look at other parks and what other parks are doing, cause I know in the beginning we looked at jumping pads and you know, oh, we could do this and we could do that. But I think, um, for us, because we're considered the mom and pops of the camping industry, I think you have to look inside, because I tell people all the time, do your homework If you're shopping for a seasonal site. Every campground is as different as its owner. We all have different needs, we all have different visions. It became pretty evident to us early on we have a beautiful piece of property and it literally, if you let it, will sell itself. So we, you know, we've done our best to enhance what's already here.
Speaker 6:We were fortunate enough to just have a beautiful place for people to come, zero in on quiet and relaxation and, you know, just, quality of life. I will be the first to tell you that's one of my focuses right now is trying to establish a healthy quality of life while you're doing something like this. To establish a healthy quality of life while you're doing something like this, because I think everyone who's spoken has talked about how you have to be ready to pretty much do anything, whether it's pumping sewer or cleaning a restroom or you know. You may not be able to lay electric, but you'd better have some people lined up that you can rely on.
Speaker 1:And you're bringing up a lot of great points and I want to go down those various roads, so let me just circle back a little bit. You talked about first of all, which I think is a great tip for anybody looking inside and deciding what kind of park you want. I think all of you on this call have very different ideals, different types of parks. What you're trying to promote or do within those parks are different, and I think that's great. I think going out and trying to just be like everybody else doesn't work. Being in, working with RV Life, I work with campground owners and hearing campground owners say oh, you know, people are asking about a pool, they have a park wherever it happens to be. You can't be all things to all people. And while that sounds pretty obvious, I talk to campground owners sometimes that are like well, this is what somebody asked for, and so I'd like what you said about looking inside what is it you want? What is it you're looking to build? What type of campground do you want? Because there are so many different campgrounds. People ask me a lot, as I've traveled across the country what's your favorite state, what's your favorite campground? And for me it depends on what I'm doing at the time. There are times I want to be in a campground where it is quiet. I've been in campgrounds in the Poconos. I want quiet, I want rest, I want serene, I don't care about the activities. And then there are times I was in Texas, in Dallas, at your campground Chase, and my favorite thing was every day I sat literally in the front seat of my RV. We had a Class A sat in the front seat of my RV because it overlooked it's a pond right Chase in Dallas, northeast, I call things ponds, rivers, whatever word. It's actually a huge pond. The sun would set every night and that's where you would find me and to me that is beautiful, it is peaceful. I loved it there. So there are different. Not only are there different things for different people, but I look for different things in campgrounds depending on what I'm looking to do. So great, I want to continue on this. I do want to first, though, mention Blue Compass RV. So for people out there that are looking to go camping at some of these amazing campgrounds that we've talked about, blue Compass RV is incredible for sales and service because they have over 100 locations coast to coast. They have more than 15,000 new and used RVs and over 1,000 service bays, with more certified RV technician than any other dealer. Blue Compass RV is there for you every step of the way and you can visit their local Blue Compass dealership or go to bluecompassrvcom.
Speaker 1:Okay, let's get back into this. Amy, you've heard a lot of what people are saying about the way they started. They've shared some of their issues along the way and you're there. That's what your company does is help people through these things. When these guys are talking about spreadsheets and Excel sheets, I'm out Like I have no idea, but it's really important. Obviously, the finance side is important, so chime in. What would you suggest at this point?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I mean there are certain things we'll look at from the beginning. For clients, you know, are you wanted? From a regulatory perspective, we've stopped projects based on local restrictions. Is the environment positive? Are they going to fight you? And you know, incorporate astronomical fees that will prohibit you from developing?
Speaker 2:We've encountered situations like that. The land itself we've had projects where water was simply not available to support. Does the infrastructure underground support the development or the expansion? You know just the costly things that you'll have to do to even begin building. And from the market perspective, you know, is the area oversaturated? You know, are you driving through competition and seeing? You know no one in the RV sites. That's a red flag. You want to find out why and you know what's going on. So just a lot of initial research and looking with that local market needs and wants is also important to consider. You know, are you in the middle of a workforce area? You know they probably don't want a luxury resort. You know they need affordable housing. You know things like that. Just deciding, you know what the area needs. The budget you know that you have to work with. Taking a realistic, you know. Look at what you're able to provide is a great starting place.
Speaker 1:Great and there is so much here and I'm just going to recommend that anybody thinking about a campground, expanding, getting into it, buying like just those initial things, they should reach out, if not to you, to somebody, because there's so many things and somebody else said it you don't know what you don't know, and there's a lot here and a lot of money involved. Let's talk about the upside of it. You guys, wes, you've been doing this for three years. Chase, for how many years when you first started?
Speaker 3:About six.
Speaker 1:Six years and Sonia and Maury's 19 years, and you've already alluded to some of the things like quality of life and, while you have to be ready to do it, all the good in it. So let's talk about the upside of it. What is your favorite parts of this, wes? Let's start with you. What's the upside? What's the upside? What's the good? You obviously love it. Whenever I see you, I see you at events. I saw you in Tampa. I've seen you in Hershey. I'll see you again in Hershey in September. You're always happy and excited, and so you obviously love what you're doing. Talk about the the beauty of it, yeah we're we're.
Speaker 4:We're much more hands-on in this field than we ever were in a lot of the other fields we came from. Love our staff. You're able to cultivate a pretty cool team environment because all day long you're just as our marketing guy will say. Well, all of us are officers of first impressions and we're in the business of first impressions even when they they they run into the site and so being able to just sit back and uh watch people walk around, and even all at the landscape or the sites or uh, you see them sitting around the, uh, the fire pits. Or we just opened our, our restaurant here on site a week ago, so I was off in the corner watching people go up and order and eat, and we've been building this stinking building for a year now. It's good to see people using it, and so that's probably one of the biggest payoffs we get from it is watching the guests enjoy the experience, and that makes all the blood, sweat and tears and the moments on Tuesday mornings going. Why did we ever do this? Worth it.
Speaker 1:Right, exactly. And for Maurice and Sonia, what is the biggest joy? 19 years, I'm still trying to. I don't know that I've done well. I taught for almost 20. So I do know of something I've done for a long period of time.
Speaker 6:That's a long time. So what? What is your favorite part? What brings you joy in doing this? For me, you know, by October I'm a nub and I think, oh my gosh, we made it through another year. And you know, I think I'm not going to. You know, look forward to it.
Speaker 6:But by spring I start getting excited and it's an incredible amount of work but I still enjoy doing it and it brings back for me memories of childhood, when, you know, when my parents had it, had it and I love it. And I think Maurice gets the same joy because he loves to go out and talk to the RVers that are going out. The way that our park is set up, with mostly seasonal and maybe like 15% transient, is perfect because we can go out and we can interact with the overnighters that come through, ask them how their stay was. And for me, when someone comes and says you know it's, it's just so beautiful and we've, you know we've really enjoyed our stay and thank you so much for for doing what you do that. I know it sounds corny, but that will fill me.
Speaker 1:Not at all, not at all. And I hear that and I get that. I can totally understand that and I love connecting, when I go into a campground, with the owner, the manager, those kind of people, and you could see the excitement and you could see that they're doing it, because that person coming into that campground truly brings them joy. Now, chase, I'm going to ask you you and I met a couple of years ago. I came down to Dallas Northeast, which is just northeast of Dallas, incredible area, because the campground is in a spot that is quiet by 20 minutes and I have all this excitement. I could get to you and I met at the campground and again you were. This is clearly something you're passionate about, it's something that brings you joy and I want you to talk about that a little bit, why you do what you're doing.
Speaker 3:I mean I would just echo, you know, what everybody else has said. It really is the customer and the fulfillment of people that are enjoying nature and being outside. And I just was at our Yellowstone property yesterday and it was seven o'clock in the morning and I was watching a guy take photos of a moose across the street, and just to see people interact with nature like that, that's awesome and I think you know it's tangible, right like my kids, when we we go in and we upgrade we upgraded the playground equipment at our park in omaha and they say when do we get to go to Omaha? You know, check out the new playground. It's just very different than what I was doing in the past, which is a good thing. It's a lot of fun. I think customers being happy is very, it's very rewarding and fulfilling right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And yellowstone is red rock rv park and that's where the most incredible tiny home. Because of that view, right, I I did a lot of research. I got it right that's where the tiny homes are okay I want to make sure, I looked at all of these different places.
Speaker 1:You is spectacular, so that is on my bucket list of places to go and be in that tiny home that has tons of windows and just look out onto the beauty that's out there. Don't much here, and I am so grateful for all of you to be here. I'm trying to keep this down to like a reasonable amount of time, but there's so much to cover. Let's talk a little bit about just quickly if each person can touch on that day-to-day type of, because now you've started your campground or you've built it from scratch. You bought a campground but now you have to do the day-to-day type stuff and some of you are on site and for you, chase, you have a number of different campgrounds.
Speaker 1:Now let's go back, because I know Chase, for you you hired Elizabeth. I have had conversation with her. I think she's your marketing director. I'm not sure of the specific title marketing director. I'm not sure of the specific title. When I talked to her, her vision, which is from you guys, the vision of the company, to make a park that is welcoming, that people feel like they're part of the family, the way she talked about it just was awe-inspiring. It was incredible because while you have six parks and you're looking to expand, you want each park to be that place that the kids want to go. I'm going to let you speak on that. You talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean Elizabeth, we're fortunate to have her because she's a full-time RVer and so she lives the life and she's provided great perspective. I mean, I think the hardest thing, I think, for what we're trying to do is keep that mom and pop feel as you grow. And this is back to kind of the staffing you know no one. I used to think no one really cared unless you're the owner. But I think you actually can find some fantastic people that align with you, um, and are motivated by different things, but ultimately the kind of the the center focus is a happy customer, and I think that's just really important. And there's a lot of basic blocking and tackling.
Speaker 3:Um, I mean, there's nothing that our staff does that I wouldn't do personally. I mean, if you call our Dallas campgrounds after hours, like you're going to get forwarded to my phone, you know it's just the way we've always done it. We probably shouldn't do that, but it's just. That's just the way we do it, right and um, you know, I think, just being engaged with the staff, there's no issue that is too small to not involve myself and Jen, and so we think that that permeates throughout all the campgrounds and I think we're very cognizant of the fact that, like, as we get bigger, the risk is is that we can't have this personal touch, and we really try, we're trying to keep that intact. So it's a big focus for us.
Speaker 1:Okay, and Wes, I'm going to ask you the same thing, and now, honestly, I don't remember what that question was. But this idea of day-to-day and the idea of keeping that vibe of the campground and just knowing you and having hung out with you the times that I have, how do you create that? How let's talk about that how do you create that at your campground?
Speaker 4:You know, environment is key. We do. We pour a lot into our, our staff. We have a department type structure because we're a full destination resort and we deal with mostly transients. We've got a large amount of people moving in and out and in and out almost daily. So you've got that cruise ship mentality. You've got to make sure the activities and events are firing on all cylinders.
Speaker 4:An experience for somebody on a Saturday is just as important, to nail that on a Monday morning for those guests that are there as well. And we try to do some fun stuff too. I was this last Saturday. I was dressed as a French pastry chef in the kitchen. I was the chef's sous chef for a minute and it wasn't planning on that. Never been in a kitchen, never been a sous chef before. I made a pretty terrible one, but I was able to help him. I didn't sling hot grease on him, he didn't like that but we fed like 110 people. So, just like Chase was saying, you roll up your sleeves and you get in there. There's that servant type leadership. I'm running around picking up trash there's no task that is beneath anybody in hospitality and then making sure the guests go back and have that best experience that they can.
Speaker 4:There's obviously some difficulties. We live in a tense society and you can get some rude customers. When you're dealing with RVers because 99.9% of them are just awesome people that ripple effect of one bad experience can be larger than you could ever find in other industry and fields. And so you take it seriously. You've got to trust some of your frontline people to embrace the culture that you've set up. But setting that culture it's an active involvement.
Speaker 4:It's something that's really hard to just kind of wind the clock and then let it go back Chase. I was having the same conflicts that you are. We're in the expansion phase, we're looking at one or two other locations and that terrifies me sometimes because I know I can't be there as much as what I've been able to do here, and that makes me wonder how will that be able to spill over. To keep that, that quality control and it's always a mix, the bigger you get between dancing with a little bit of bureaucracy to make sure that standards are met each time so that each experience is as best as it can be, but also still trying to have that personal touch, to add that heartbeat in whatever you're doing to make sure that that experience is the best it can be.
Speaker 1:When it comes now you've started the campground, whether it's from scratch or it's an already existing campground, you've got to get it out to people. So, amy, can you speak a little bit on people, making sure they let people know and I'm going to talk a little bit about it because, like I said, I go to campground owners events Can you speak a little bit on that?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. We always say, once construction begins, you want to start promoting because it's new and no one knows you and no one knows you're there. A couple of things I always say is really collaborate with your construction team, make sure that your opening date is solid and that what you're promoting out there as a start date is there and real. You want a really beautiful optimized website, social media, you want Facebook and Google ads and you really just want to put yourself out there. You know also in the industry, all of the organizations and memberships and any trade shows that you're able to attend you know before you're even built is a huge deal and especially in certain markets like snowbirds, you know they tend to plan a year in advance, so you want to catch them before they make those reservations. But it all plays a huge part and pays off really, really well once you're open and we spoke a little bit in the beginning about RV Life Campground Reviews.
Speaker 1:It is a site for those people who don't know. As an RVer, I have been on their site and looked at their reviews and because they were authentic reviews, that's the place that I went to to find out about campgrounds, about campgrounds. And then they have a featured park program where that gives you, as a campground owner, more visibility to be able to get your brand out there. So I have to put a plug out there for them. I know Wes you are part of it and Chase, your campgrounds are on there as well. And when I say a campground is a featured park, it is because other RVers have said they are Sonia and Maurice, your campground is also a featured park. Rvers go in. They love the campground, they give a review and I think other people's reviews is the best form of advertisement of you know, hands down.
Speaker 5:It is.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so I just wanted to mention that. I want now to ask each of you where people could reach out to you and what is next for you guys. If you're talking about expanding, you're talking about other campgrounds. I know Chase for you. You have openings of some of these campgrounds. I hope to be attending, so I want to hear what's next. Where can people reach out to you? And we still have more to cover here, because I have another question putting you guys on the spot in just a few minutes. Sonia and Maurice, why don't we start with you? Where can people reach you, the Campground website and what's next? So you guys, let me ask this in a different way. You're 19 years. Let me ask this in a different way.
Speaker 6:You're 19 years. We haven't talked about this yet. Is there a thought of this? Like you guys leaving and I don't know this, and I know I more frequently because of the age that we're at. You know I always tell people, like when they say oh, how are you old and tired? But there is an element to this that you know it's very physical work. I mean we both are out there with chainsaws and my excitement comes when I go to the steel store. But certainly, you know we're not going to live forever.
Speaker 5:I realize that and you know we don't have any anyone to pass it down to.
Speaker 6:No, none of our children are going to, and that that's actually common for children growing up in this. You know a lot and you want them, even if they do grow up in this, you want them to go out and explore what it is they need to explore before they would make a commitment like this anyway. But for us at this point and more so for me because it's been in my family so many years we have entertained, selling, but I want to keep this as long as I can, given how long it's been in my family. So our thought is we're going to eventually move to having some other managers in place. I've been fortunate enough to have the same front desk manager for nine years. I think now I have some really good people at my front desk. What we're doing right now? We want to have the ability to have some downtime during the summer, and we actually bought an Airstream about three years ago and I think we've had it out all of three times Very brief and they were very brief.
Speaker 6:So our goal is to try to you know, as I said before, is to have a quality of life and if we're going to keep this, we have to find a way to have that quality of life if we're going to keep going. So I don't know what the solution is or what it's going to look like right now, but I would really like to keep it really like to keep it.
Speaker 1:So Well, let's put Amy on the spot here and just to let people know it's ClaytonParkRVEscapescom is how they can reach you net net. Okay, you are also on campgroundsrvlifecom. You guys are there, amy. Are there other options that people might not be thinking?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Hiring a manager is a great option that keeps you involved as much or as little as you want to be. There's management companies out there that can manage it for you and then, if and when you're ready to sell, there's options for you as well, and I think all of us here would be glad to help you. Just helping you in that situation, making connections and sounds like finding the right buyers really would be really important for you as well.
Speaker 1:Is there ever an option and we are going just in all kinds of directions where somebody comes in and buys but the owners don't want to stay involved, is that? I guess anything's possible. You could work anything out with anybody, right? Would that be something I'm going to go? I'm going to ask you, chase I know you've bought a number of places Is that ever a consideration when you go in and buy a campground? I know you've bought six now.
Speaker 3:It's a great question, patty. So our Santa Fe property the previous owner actually stayed on to manage the property for us, which has been great. We did a seller financing transaction with them. So while they sold the property, they're still collecting a monthly payment from us and they're actively managing it. And then our property our most recent acquisition in Cheyenne, wyoming it's called AB, the daughter of the previous owners that actually stayed on to manage that property and same thing, doing a seller financing transaction. So we're big on continuity. We we obviously want to keep people that are a want to be there and, you know, b are fun and enjoyable to work with. So there's definitely creative ways to do that and we've had some good success with that so far.
Speaker 1:Okay, so where can people reach out to you and what is next for you?
Speaker 3:Our website is openroversortscom. We've got a variety of things going on at all the properties. So we've got, uh, we're just opened up an expansion at our omaha koa property. We are doubling the size of our santa fe koa property, um, which will hopefully be open later this fall. We've got some, uh, new premium sites that we're introducing at our other property in the Dallas area. It's called Good Shepherd RV Park. And then, knock on wood, we'll have another acquisition in the New Orleans area in the next couple weeks that we'll be closing on. So that's kind of next up for us.
Speaker 1:So now I have to change my podcast script yet again. But that's great, that's awesome.
Speaker 3:I shouldn't have said anything because I just probably jinxed it. So you know. Just you know you can edit that part out.
Speaker 1:Okay, I will let Jacob edit that out, if you want, by the time this comes. Actually, this is going to come out next week, so something happens in between. Okay, I'll get back to you on that. Thank you, um Wes. You talked about expanding, uh, tolona Ridge and you said something about other campgrounds. So you talk, tell us, tell us how to get to you first of all and what's what's coming for you.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so, uh, tolona Ridgev resortcom, or tolona ridge, even if you spell it, it'll get you there somehow some way. Our marketing team's awesome like that. Yeah, no, we're. Tolona ridge is about to go from a a 40 acre campground to a uh 290 acre resort, so we've got we've got quite a lot of expansions already in place. We've got 11 1⁄2 miles of mountain bike and hiking trails being put in as we speak, and we just got our restaurant up and going, and so I'm getting some tiny houses for you to come and hang out with.
Speaker 4:Yes, so I'm excited for that there you go another tiny house.
Speaker 4:Yep, yep, excited for that. There you go, another tiny house, yep, yep. And then we've got, we're, we're in talks with uh, uh, one or two other uh locations to do, uh, like a smaller version of talona. That would also that must be more like an enclave type situation where you've got uh, it's, it's. It would only be like 60 to 70 sites, but it can be run by our, our, our team, our team here, and have a smaller, smaller footprint, uh to be able to function, because it would be hard to get a labor force in some of these is the more beautiful landscape, the the less labor force, the less infrastructure and less water and sewer and power and all the stuff you need becomes. And then you guys are going to the steel store and chopping down trees, that's right.
Speaker 4:Yeah, so that's our plan.
Speaker 1:Great, I know that we have covered a lot of things here and I am sure there's a ton more that needs to be covered. Amy, do you have any last thoughts for people on the podcast that are thinking I want to own a campground, I want to start a campground Any last thoughts there and how can people reach you?
Speaker 2:I'll just say it is a wonderful industry to be a part of. I've been in it long enough to see advancements in technology and in guest service. People say what do you do? We build vacations, so it's you know. I would say go for it, you know, and it's just a joy to be a part of and wonderful people to be surrounded by. I love it and I would absolutely recommend it to anyone interested. Our website is mcg-hospitalitycom.
Speaker 1:So it's been a pleasure, thank you, and for my listeners and again, we're not done I'm going to put all of the links in the show notes so nobody has to remember anything. I am now going to ask each of you one last question. I'm going to give you a minute to think about it after I ask and then talk about one of my sponsors. So it is time for the question of the week, which is brought to you by Cool RV, and I'm going to ask each of you what is on your bucket list. So, whether that's a person, a place, an experience you want to have, everybody is now thinking. Jacob will need video of that. Everybody just went into thinking mode.
Speaker 1:This is why I'm going to give you just a minute to think about that, because I'm outside Philadelphia, pennsylvania, and we have already had really hot, humid days. Now I am in a house right now, so when it gets hot and humid, I just turn the air conditioner on. But I certainly remember those days being I was in an RV in the middle of the summer in Las Vegas, yes, and there were days it went to 120. My air conditioners worked okay. But there is Cool RV K-O-O-L-R-V and it is a game changer when it comes to RV air conditioners, this unit, it's small, it's only $89, and it will give you cooler air, more airflow, and make it so your air conditioners are quieter. We're getting into summer, people. You need to check out CoolRV. Go to CoolRVcom today. All right, who wants to start? I'll let you raise your hand if you are ready with your bucket list.
Speaker 6:I think for me, if we can achieve a balance of because this park is part of my identity, this park is part of my identity, there's and I'm trying to think of which cosmetic company and there are other examples where it's been in the family and then the family sells it and then they buy it back because they realize how much a part of it that company is, or how much they are a part of that company is, or how much they are a part of that company. So for me, my bucket list would be we find a way to keep this going and travel at the same time. I don't care if it's just two or three nights away, whatever it is.
Speaker 5:Or New Zealand.
Speaker 6:Or New Zealand Okay, that's more than two or three nights away, whatever it is. Or New Zealand, or New Zealand Okay, that's more than two or three nights. We did have somebody stay with us from Glass Island in New Zealand and they said come anytime and we're like how many hours flight? So I think I don't know what yours would be, but oh, I think we're right in the same vein, dear.
Speaker 5:I think that all sounds good and I think traveling is great. I mean, I've been all over the country, I've lived all over the country Alaska and Hawaii and this is just. This meets all of my needs as far as that goes, but I still have a lust to wander. I want to see different things. I want to go and see my family on the West Coast. I want to do whatever I want to do when I want to do it, and that's kind of where we haven't been in 19 years.
Speaker 1:Okay, and that's good. And a lot of times I'll ask what's on somebody's bucket list and then give me a specific place or an experience. I think that's a great goal that you know well. You want to go to New Zealand, which is going to be more than a three or four day trip. You're going to need a lot longer. But you know, maybe with conversations with people on the call you can create other options. Maybe my listeners have some thoughts for you, okay. So, amy, what's on your bucket list?
Speaker 2:So I've got two. My first would be a helicopter tour of a glacier lake, and then the second is Hawaii, because when I go I probably won't come back, so it'll be the last thing I do.
Speaker 1:There you go. That's good, that is a great one. How about you Chase?
Speaker 3:I was going to say is the bucket list with an RV or without an RV?
Speaker 1:Whatever you want it to be.
Speaker 3:If it's without an RV, I'm going to say Sonia Marie, it's the New Zealand thing. That's always been a bucket list for me. See that I'm from the Phoenix area Originally. I love the desert, but I love the ocean. I'd love to take, you know, maybe a class B or something down the Baja California. Not with kids. My kids are young, not now.
Speaker 1:Or you just get some babysitters.
Speaker 3:That's right, exactly.
Speaker 1:There you go, baja California. How about you Wes?
Speaker 4:Man, I, there you go, Baja California. How about you, Wes man, mine's silly. I want to have an RV and actually go on an RV trip. We're in the RV industry and I was in an RV for three nights. I borrowed one from a friend. It was a Mattalona shirt and I shot raw sewage all over my feet and into my boat shoes.
Speaker 1:And fled.
Speaker 4:I fled the park. I'm that guy. I want to go back to that part in a class a something nice, with a fancy Talona shirt. I want to tip them big time for the chaos I caused years ago and I want to do it right. So that's my.
Speaker 1:There you go well, I'll have to hook you up with Blue Compass RV, an incredible company, to go check out RVs. Wow, it's now time for the campground of the week and it is brought to you by RV Life. This week's featured campground is Red Rock RV Park in Island Park, idaho, and if you don't have an RV, it is totally okay because you can stay in their tiny home, which is my plan. That is on my bucket list. Now. To stay in that tiny home, people have to go check out the pictures. I just can't even describe them.
Speaker 1:It is 22 miles from the west side of Yellowstone Park, which is also really important because in the over three years that I RV'd, now when, damn, my husband said let's go RVing, I said what are we going to do? And he said we'll go to every national park in the country, which even at the time I was like, yeah, I want to go to some. I don't know that that's my goal, but in over three years we went to zero national parks. So Yellowstone is definitely on my list of places to go. They have full hookups, tent sites and, like I said, you can rent a tiny home.
Speaker 1:They have a 9.4 rating on the RV Life campground site with 222 reviews so you could see what other RVers are saying about this park by going to campgroundsrvlifecom and then you can see all these amazing pictures. I'm talking about all the amenities this park has to offer. And the nice thing is, once you are on the campground site the campgroundsrvlifecom site you could hit the book now button. You don't have to go anywhere else, you could just book your stay, because once you see these pictures, you're going to want to book that stay. Rv Life Campgrounds, as I said, is part of the RV Life suite of products. It's the most comprehensive source for RV parks, campgrounds, resorts, city, state, national parks. Go to RV Life campgrounds at rvlifecom to check it all out. Thank you so much for being so accommodating and being on and sharing so much great information. I appreciate it.
Speaker 6:Thank you for having us.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 3:Patty, you are welcome.
Speaker 1:Thank you to my listeners. Remember life's a journey. Live each day to the fullest, without regrets. I'm Patty Hunt and you have been listening to the RV Life Podcast.