RV LIFE Podcast
The RV LIFE Podcast, created by one of the premier companies in the RV industry, is for the RV Community with a mission to Educate, Entertain and Explore the RV Lifestyle. The Podcast will explore all things RV Life: living, working, exploring, learning. With host Patti Hunt, full time RVers, content creators, educators and explorers.
RV LIFE Podcast
Lithium Batteries for RVs: What You Need to Know with Dragonfly Energy
In this electrifying episode I (Patti Hunt) sit down with Denis Phares, CEO and founder of Dragonfly Energy, the company behind the revolutionary Battle Born Batteries. We dive deep into why lithium batteries are transforming the RV lifestyle for full-timers, boondockers, and off-grid adventurers. Denis shares his fascinating journey from physics professor to battery pioneer, the safety and efficiency of lithium iron phosphate technology, and what RVers must consider when upgrading their power systems. Whether you're just starting your RV journey or looking to level up your rig, this episode is packed with expert insights, practical tips, and inspiring stories.
Thank you for listening to the RV LIFE Podcast, I would love to hear from you, please leave me a comment or question here on the podcast page or on my social media channels:
RV LIFE Podcast Instagram or RV LIFE Podcast Facebook
Denis Phares, CEO and founder of Dragonfly Energy Denis Phares Bio
* RV LIFE Pro Click the link for 25% off discount taken out chek out
Special Discount Codes: Click Link & Use Code
* RV LIFE Pro Click the link for 25% off
* Thousand Trails Membership Specialist Journey Membership
Call/Text Warren & Sharon Lewis 804-366-0798
* KoolRV
* Harvest Hosts: Code: HUNT20 % Off
* Open Roads Fuel Card save on Diesel Fuel
* Open Roads Innovative Tolling Solutions All 48 states
* Open Road Resorts Mention RV LIFE Podcast
* CLEAR2O Save 10% w/ Code: RVLIFEPODCAST
* National Vehicle Buy or Sell Your RV
* Rivet Supply Co * AirSkirts $200 off kit order Discount Code RVPOD
* Motorhome Tires: $50 discount ...
Are lithium batteries really a game changer for RVers? I'm Patti Hunt and you are listening to the RV Life Podcast. Dennis, what is most important to consider when purchasing an RV battery?
Speaker 2:I think the most important thing to consider is that it's not just a battery, it's a power system and there are a number of components that go in the power system to charge the battery as well as to convert the power into the DC or AC power that you use. So of course, you need a quality battery, but consider the entire system as well.
Speaker 1:And we're going to get into all of that today, because today's expert guest is Dennis Ferris, CEO and inventor of Lithium Batteries by Battle Born Batteries, and he's here to answer questions that you, the RV community, have been asking, and we're going to talk about things like types of batteries and differences, how to meet your power needs, maintenance, safety and so much more. This episode is going to be jam-packed. My story, as some people know, I started full-time RVing four years ago during COVID. My husband said let's sell everything and buy an RV, and we did, even though I had no clue. My husband had a little bit more of a clue, but I was really clueless. And when it came to powering the to the podcast, I need my cappuccino in the morning, so I had to make sure that that machine was going to work. I could say I've made a lot of mistakes in the RV, including destroying a lithium battery because when I stored the RV it was not shut off properly. So maybe we'll talk about that more during the episode. The reason for the RV Life podcast is to help my listeners learn, so I create content to help educate, entertain and explore the RV lifestyle, helping you to not make some of the same mistakes I've made and to inspire you to live life to the fullest. For this episode and some of my other podcast episodes, you will now be able to see video clips on my new channel, Inspired Travels with Patti.
Speaker 1:If you're looking for some great campgrounds, Open Road Resorts has six incredible parks in Idaho, Nebraska, New Mexico, two in Texas and their newest is AB Camping and RV Park in Cheyenne, Wyoming. All six of these parks are highly favored and that is by you, the RVer, and you can find what the RVers other RVers are saying by going to RV Life Campground Reviews, and that is at campgroundsrvlifecom, or you could check out these highly favorite parks at openroadresortscom. I'm so excited to get into today's episode because I've learned a lot about to today's episode because I've learned a lot about batteries still nowhere near an expert but even more important, about Dennis Ferris, the man behind Dragonfly Energy. Dennis Ferris is the CEO of Dragonfly Energy, the company behind Battleboard Batteries, one of the first lithium battery solutions built specifically for off-grid RVers.
Speaker 1:A lifelong inventor, Dennis helped pioneer the shift from heavy, short-lived lead acid batteries to the lightweight lithium ion phosphate batteries that now power thousands of RV adventures across the country. Under his leadership, Dragonfly Energy transformed from a startup into a leader in lithium power systems for RVers, with a growing portfolio of smart, sustainable energy technology, Before founding Dragonfly Energy in 2012,. Founding Dragonfly Energy in 2012, Dennis was a tenured engineering professor with deep experience in energy, fluid mechanics and environmental science. He holds multiple patents in battery manufacturing and is passionate about making off-grid living more accessible and environmentally responsible. Welcome, Dennis, to the RV Life Podcast.
Speaker 2:Thank you, patti, it's great to be here.
Speaker 1:I am so excited to have you here and again I am going to admit this throughout I am out of my league with power and energy and all of the things we're going to talk about today, so I am so excited to learn more about powering an RV. I can't wait to get into this. So education, your edification let's start with that just really touches the surface about the amazing journey that you've been on. We talked about before. We jumped on how much we have in common. So I know as a young kid you moved to Philadelphia where I was born and raised, and then you went to university at Villanova and lived right down the street from me because I also lived in Villanova. So that was really cool. So so many common things, but help my listeners get to know you, the man, just a little bit more things but help my listeners get to know you the man just a little bit more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I grew up in Villanova, Pennsylvania, on the main line just outside the city of Philadelphia, and the reason we live there is my dad was a physics professor at Villanova University, so naturally I became a physics major and did my undergraduate at Villanova University and that kind of set the stage for what I would do afterwards, because I went to graduate school. I went to Caltech and got a PhD in environmental engineering science, working for a chemical engineer who was my advisor, and became very proficient in aerosol mechanics, the physics and chemistry of small particles, fluid mechanics, and eventually got around to making energy-related devices from small particles. One of those is a lithium-ion battery. So you know, I basically just crammed 25 years of my background into that sentence, but that's essentially what happened.
Speaker 2:I did go into academia. I became a professor, first at Texas A&M University in College Station, Texas, which was awesome. Then I switched over to University of Southern California in Los Angeles and I got my tenure there and, long story short, I left my tenured position, moved to Reno back in 2012, got an MBA, founded Dragonfly Energy to deploy some of the technologies that I was developing related to lithium-ion battery manufacturing. Technologies that I was developing related to lithium-ion battery manufacturing and in the process went to market with a line of battery packs called Battle Born Batteries, named after the Battle Born state of Nevada. And there you go.
Speaker 1:Wow, and that is a lot packed into a quick synopsis of who you are. I am going to. I referred to the blog that gets into what you just talked about in such depth and just an incredible story, so I am going to put a link to that blog in the show notes for people to find out more about you. You missed something big in there, because I know you also are a guitar player and you were in a band and you were debating right between the band and California and science, right. That was a big part of who you were.
Speaker 2:That is true. I guess that must be in the blog. I'm not. I don't know exactly what you're referring to, so but yes, that is true. I uh, my, my plan A? Uh was to be a musician, and specifically a? Uh rock and roll guitar player, and when I graduated from Villanova kind of made a deal with my parents that I would move to LA to do this but I would go to graduate school. So Caltech was a natural fit and I spent many years playing on the Sunset Strip and going from band to band and playing many sessions. And I did that even while I was a professor and I kept it going. And even as recently as after I moved up to Reno I was not as serious about it, but at least still playing music.
Speaker 1:Wow, and yes, I've done a lot of stalking you, I guess we'll call it so I know a lot about you. So you decided on lithium batteries and you wanted to go out and meet RVers. I know you attended rallies and boondocking spots and you were on the road because you wanted to connect directly with the community. What was the thought behind that? What happened while you were doing that?
Speaker 2:Well, it really has to do with the fact that lithium ion batteries were so new and there was a pretty steep education curve to understanding what it took to not just change out your lead power activities that lithium ion batteries facilitate. So it was important to get out on the road and really educate and understand how RVers particularly ones that were full timers how they were using energy and understanding for myself how lithium battery systems could be tuned and designed to optimize the experience, and then also just talking with them and educating them and getting the buy-in from those folks was really important.
Speaker 1:Okay, so now you started the company in. Well, you started development in 2009. Is that correct?
Speaker 2:Well, I mean honestly, you can say that the technology that goes into the patents that I've written was, you know, decades earlier. I started the company in 2012 specifically to deploy the cell manufacturing technology, but what happened really was that the battery pack assembly and the RV business really took off and that became sort of a central focal point to what the business was about. It funded a lot of the R&D that we ended up doing. It helped us develop a large intellectual property portfolio, so that is part of the value of Dragonfly Energy. But we are still very much an RV company even today and just love the interactions we have and continuing to develop products and innovating on the technologies.
Speaker 1:So why the RV industry? From what I read, you're not an RVer, correct? Or did I miss something?
Speaker 2:No, I was not. I was not when we went to market and it really was an understanding of the power that you could get from that size of a lithium ion battery product and I was kind of brainstorming what kind of industries or markets relied on specifically that kind of power, that kind of size. I'm not talking about you know cell phones, we know cell phone batteries, we know electric vehicle batteries, we know large grid storage batteries. But I was really looking at the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 kilowatt hour range. And RVs was not my first try. My first try was battery-powered guitar tube amplifiers. So that's another one of those.
Speaker 2:You know that size, that kind of power, and my band in Reno at the time was 100% off-grid. The battery powered the amplifiers, even the bass amp, the PA system. That was actually my first try and it worked great. I remember playing a gig in Doyle, California, where the power went out and the band played on, which was pretty awesome, but it was not a good business model. There's just not enough musicians out there, particularly ones that are interested in off-grid power, and so the RV industry emerged as one that had a pain point, and that is RVers really didn't like their lead acid batteries just the unreliability, the fact that they're so heavy and difficult to replace and don't deliver a ton of power. It really seemed ripe for a change.
Speaker 1:Okay, so the other thing we have in common you were a professor, I was a teacher. We talked about that in the pre-interview. Lots of things in common. I want to break things down a little bit and again, for me, I am limited on what I know about power and energy. Let's break it down. You brought up lead acid. We've talked about lithium ion. I know when my husband was looking at batteries there was also an AGM type system battery. Can you, just for listeners that are like me and not familiar, break down those different types of batteries?
Speaker 2:You mentioned absorbed glass mat. Basically, AGM is a type of lead acid battery, as is a flooded battery, a sealed lead-acid battery. It's based on the same chemistry associated with lead and sulfuric acid and it's that electrochemical reaction that delivers the electron you need to power. Lithium-ion is a little different. It's based on chemical reactions involving a lithium-ion and it's a completely different mechanism.
Speaker 2:But what's really nice about it, compared to a lead-acid battery, is that you can pack in more power in a smaller space and with less weight. And another big difference is that you can deliver a lot more power without having that voltage sag that you experience with a lead-acid battery, that is, it has a lot less impedance, a lot less resistance to delivering power. So those differences the fact that it's lighter and the fact that it can deliver such efficient power other than the fundamental chemistry, that is something that really describes why those two chemistries are different. There are other types of batteries as well. There's nickel cadmium batteries and nickel metal hydride. So those aren't the only two. But for RVing in particular, historically it was flooded lead acid to sealed lead acid, to AGM and now evolving into the next generation lithium ion, specifically lithium iron phosphate batteries.
Speaker 1:I would imagine that presenting this to the RV community something different, something new, and it's my understanding that overall lithium batteries the upfront cost is more and you could talk to that. What were the challenges? How receptive was the RV community to this idea of lithium batteries?
Speaker 2:The two biggest obstacles were cost and safety. Biggest obstacles were cost and safety. So with the cost issue and even at the time the upfront cost was even higher than it is now but the argument that we successfully made to the RV community was that the cost of ownership was a lot lower. So a lithium ion battery can cycle so many more times than a lead acid battery without degrading that. You have to count that lifetime.
Speaker 1:I'm going to stop you because can you explain what that means again for the teacher that had to break things down?
Speaker 2:Another really big difference between a lithium ion battery and a lead acid battery is the number of times it can be cycled. So when you cycle a battery, what it means is you're draining it, using up the power and then you're charging it back up again, and that's one cycle. A lead acid battery will typically last hundreds of cycles, whereas a lithium-ion battery, particularly a lithium-ion phosphate battery, will last thousands of cycles. So even though there's a higher upfront cost for lithium, if you amortize that cost over the lifetime of the battery, it's actually a fraction of the cost of lead acid. So the cost of ownership is much less. So that's how we address the cost issue, the upfront cost issue for lithium ion batteries.
Speaker 2:And then the other issue was the safety issue. And at the time there were some pretty high profile fires having to do with, you know, the cell phone explosions or hoverboard type, you know, scooters, whatever. There was some basically low quality stuff out there. That was a particularly volatile chemistry that is different than lithium iron phosphate volatile chemistry that is different than lithium iron phosphate. So we had to educate two points. The first is that we're not using that kind of chemistry which is lithium cobalt oxide. We're using lithium iron phosphate, which is inherently safer.
Speaker 2:And then the second point is you can design a battery pack where the chance of a fire is very, very, very low. And that's how we designed our packs. We basically made it so that you can't have propagation of thermal events. And once you convince the customer that it's cheaper and it's safer than you think, now all of a sudden all the other benefits become that much clearer, that much better. It's like okay, so now I could actually power an air conditioner off-grid. I've never heard of that before, so that was sort of an aha moment for a lot of them.
Speaker 1:Right, and being able to do those things has certainly made a difference to RVers and how they RV. The lithium battery, you know, is a game changer. I've seen it over the four years that I've been involved in RVing. What was the moment? Was there a moment when you realized this was it for the RV community, that this was a game changer?
Speaker 2:It was probably one of the events that I went to with a bunch of full-time RV influencers out in Wellington Texas in 2018. And we met up with some that we had already been working with, and we met a lot of new ones, and and every single one of those you know individuals or couples or groups that we talked to were blown away. And, of course, we had our existing influencers that had batteries there that were able to show off what it could do, and we even brought some to do some more installations. I was pretty floored at the change in attitude from when we got there to when we left. When we left Wellington Texas back in 2018, we basically had another 10 influencers signed up just ready to tell this story because they were so excited about it, and I think that was sort of the moment, and then after that it was really exponential growth for us sort of the moment and then after that it was really exponential growth for us and you're all over and we're going to talk about that like events that you attend.
Speaker 1:I've seen you at all the events I've been to. We'll talk a little bit about that. When it comes to power and again I want to take it down Some of my listeners are full-time, part-time, sometime thinking about RVing. Some have backgrounds and they're following every word you're saying. Some are more like me where, when I pulled into a campsite, depending on where we were plugged in or the kind of power, whether we were off grid I would ask do I need to turn off the air conditioner to start the cappuccino machine? Like? That's how I understood what I needed to do and I'll admit it wasn't the best way. I should have had a better understanding which is the purpose of this. Let's talk a little bit about the energy itself, the power. So for somebody who has a large fifth wheel, they want to be off grid. Let's talk a little bit about what they need to consider when thinking about powering their RV. You know, off grid, if they're boondocking or they're going to be in cold weather or those kinds of things, what do they need to think about?
Speaker 2:what do they need?
Speaker 1:to think about. All right, well, you brought up a bunch of different things there.
Speaker 2:So if you're starting from scratch and you want to build a power system, first of all you want to consider the size of your system that you need and you really need to if you're doing it yourself, you need to learn to count your electrons. You need to learn to count how many kilowatt hours you use typically in a day If you want to be boondocking in off-grid. You have to match that with the amount of solar that you're producing. And then, finally, you have to think about how much power do you want to be able to use at one time. So you mentioned that you have to turn off the air conditioner if you want to run the coffee maker. Well, that happens to be the case for your particular system because you had yourself capped at a certain power limit. So if you're designing the system beforehand and you say, well, I want to be able to put out a kilowatt and a half here and a kilowatt and a half there at the same time, then you need three kilowatts. So you say, okay, I'm going to design my system for three kilowatts. So that means you have to build your necessary the bank, battery bank that can deliver that power but, more importantly, all the other system components have to be able to handle that power and that current your inverter has to be able to do it. Power and that current your inverter has to be able to do it. All your connectors, your cables, you know. That's why the system is so important.
Speaker 2:When you're talking about the design and how you want to optimize your lifestyle, you have to consider the entire system, not just the batteries. So that's the first thing. You've got the size and design of your system. And then you mentioned cold weather. Now you have to consider the various elements that you're going to be in. Is it going to be very hot? Is it going to be very cold? What are your expected environmental conditions?
Speaker 2:Lithium ion batteries should not be charged rapidly when it's very cold. There are reasons that you shouldn't do that. The most blatant one it's going to be a loss of capacity. You're going to age it faster. So what we've done with our system?
Speaker 2:I think we were one of the pioneers in actually protecting against that by having a low temperature cutoff that prevents charging at low temperatures. Now, that's ubiquitous in the industry, but then, if you do want to be able to use your batteries or charge your batteries in cold temperatures you can put in a heating provision. So we have an internal heating provision that you can activate or deactivate. If you're typically going to be in very hot temperatures, all lithium ion batteries should have a hot temperature cut off as well, because if you're actually in hot weather and generating more heat, then you could run the temperature of the batteries higher to the point where you're not just degrading them but you could damage them permanently. So you have to think about how you might cool the system or allow the bank to convectively cool. You know the power and energy designed to allow you to boondock the way that you want to boondock.
Speaker 1:OK, so that a lot of great information for people. I know you guys have support system. I want to talk about a sponsor. I want to talk about a sponsor and when, after I've talked about the sponsor, I want to talk about those people who are either looking for their new RV, their next RV, or service.
Speaker 1:Blue Compass RV is the place that we at RV Life recommend, because they have over 100 locations coast to coast, more than 15,000 new and used RVs and over 1,000 service bays and, as we all know, those service bays are only good if there are technicians, and they do have more certified RV technicians than any other dealer. Blue Compass RV is the place to go, and you can visit a local Blue Compass RV dealer or go to bluecompassrvcom today. Let's talk a little bit about and if there's something else that you feel like we need to talk about before we jump in to the installation part, I know that you installation part, I know that you Battleboard batteries are both put in to RVs when they're manufactured, as well as DIY upgrades. So let's talk a little bit about you know, if somebody wants to do an installation, what's the process? How do I get help on? What is the right type of battery, the right system for me.
Speaker 2:We do offer a lot of technical support. So that is something that we've really stressed over the years is everybody's system is different. Everybody's needs are different in their RV and how they use power. So it is important to, I think, call in and get the facts and use the experience that our team has, because they've done so many of these At the OEM level. I love the OEMs because, my goodness, those things. We've spent a lot of time designing those up front and once it's done, they just make it over and over and over again. We never have issues with those. The OEM systems are optimized and they're repeatable, and so we love working with our OEM customers, the DIYers. A lot of times they get their own batteries, they'll build their own batteries.
Speaker 2:I think that the industry has evolved to the point where four years ago we were part of a DIY system. Battle Born Batteries system was part of a DIY system. A Battle Born batteries system was part of a DIY system, and now folks buy their own cells and make their own BMSs. So that part has evolved quite a bit. But that doesn't really represent the majority of RVers. The majority of RVers actually will look to see what's in an Airstream, what's in a Tiffin and they'll be like okay, that's Battle Born batteries. I want to get that. I want to kind of recreate that system. But even in that situation, I think it's important to design the system over your own personal needs. If you're going to bother to do it, you might as well optimize it for yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and I think I don't know many people who are creating their own batteries but, like you said that they're doing it, I would worry about the safety around it for sure. But somebody who's looking, let's take somebody through your process. They're looking to upgrade their rig. How do you make sure the switch goes smoothly, whether they're switching from lead acid battery or they want to upgrade the lithium batteries they have or maybe even change from the lithium batteries they have to battle-borne batteries. So any of those situations.
Speaker 1:What can you suggest to help that process?
Speaker 2:Well, in addition to calling in and getting some help, I would say consider all of the components. So let's say you have 300 kilowatt load. That ratio, the two kilowatt load to three kilowatt hours, means that you're draining your batteries in an hour and a half. So the first thing to consider, as I mentioned before, is what power do you want and how much do you want that power delivered? How long do you want that power delivered? Once you have that settled, look at all the other components.
Speaker 2:Let's say you're not going to exceed two and a half kilowatts of power, then a three kilowatt inverter could be great. Maybe you need to go to a five kilowatt inverter. Maybe, if you go higher than that, you want to go to higher voltages, maybe a 24 volt or a 48 volt, because as you go to higher and higher power, it's more efficient to raise your voltages, because otherwise your currents get too big. So power is basically voltage times current, and so if you want a more efficient system, you want to keep your current slower, so you raise your voltages. But if you're raising your voltages now, you're going to put your batteries in series and you have to worry about things like balancing balancing the cells internally and balancing the packs that are mounted in series.
Speaker 2:Once you have all that sorted out and you know what your currents are going to be, you got to make sure all your connectors, all your cables, your cable runs can handle that current, because you're going to get heat losses and voltage drops in every component. It's additive. So if you know we've had a ton of customers that call in and you know if they don't get the efficiencies that they expect, it's usually because they've got inefficiencies in the systems that have nothing to do with the batteries. The vast majority of issues that people have has nothing to do with the batteries. It has to do with something else in the system that isn't designed properly. So I guess your question is pretty open-ended there. There's so many things that need to be considered and that's why I would highly recommend that you get help.
Speaker 1:And you have support. What kinds of support or tools can somebody expect from your team?
Speaker 2:We have a technical support team that obviously will spend a lot of time with you diagnosing these issues if you buy the batteries from us. So you know we obviously feel very strongly about the fact that you need a quality battery. In our opinion it should be a listed battery. We list our batteries through a couple of different accredited listing labs. When your battery is listed to a UL certification, that means you can't change components in your batteries. You have to get random inspections twice a year of your entire production facility. So it's a big deal to be listed. So I think if you don't want any headache, it's important to start off with a quality product and then you can kind of hone in on what might actually be wrong if you're having troubles with your system. But we do have a lot of in-house expertise and capabilities to help folks with their systems, both before the design process and after the fact.
Speaker 1:And that's great to know, because a lot of people obviously a lot of RVers like to DIY, and so making sure they're doing it right so they don't have to call in with the problems after, obviously is a big deal. From my research, you guys have an amazing customer service support team, so that is always something that I like to see in a company. Now your Battleboard boundaries are designed and assembled here in the US. Obviously, that's something people look for these days, but talk a little bit more and you've touched on it about the advantages of doing that quality, reliability, From the customer confidence standpoint you did touch on it. I think it's worth reiterating or adding anything you want to add, given the fact that they are made here in the US In Nevada, actually.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, and the motivation initially to do that was because so Dragonfly always wanted to be a cell manufacturer. The company I started this company to manufacture cells. It's still something that we're capital constrained on. We can do it, but we need the money to do it. But I think it's so important, especially these days, to be able to onshore the manufacturing of something as critical as lithium-ion batteries. So we're still 100% focused on making that happen.
Speaker 2:But if you're making your own cells, you have to be making your own packs, and that's why it actually started that. You know, I started making packs because I expected to have our own cells, so we had to get to a final product, so we had to know how to make packs early on own cells. So we have to get to a final product, so we have to know how to make packs early on. So I alluded to the fact that I recommend a listed battery. If you're an OEM, that's actually regulation.
Speaker 2:The RVIA requires you to install a listed battery. So that's another reason why we have to manufacture here, just to be compliant, so that we can get our batteries into an Airstream or a Keystone or Midwest Automotive, whatever it is. It has to be a listed battery and I can honestly say from a personal standpoint we've got hundreds of thousands of systems out there. I want to be able to sleep at night knowing that I'm putting out a safe product. So by getting it third-party certified, going through the design processes, having everything documented, I think, is just critical, not just for the customer but for my own peace of mind.
Speaker 1:And that's huge because that's been a big conversation and concern with RVers about safety. Electrical systems within an RV is the biggest safety concern. Fire start in an RV. It doesn't take long at all, so that's a huge safety concern. People talking about lithium batteries you've addressed that they are safe when done right. Is there anything else from a safety point that would help our RVers to understand and make this decision that the right lithium batteries and I want to stress that because there are companies out there. I think my husband was Googling on Amazon and there's these companies and places you can get lithium type batteries going to a reliable source because of the safety issue. Is there anything more you could add to that? I just know this is a big topic for RVers for RVers.
Speaker 2:You know I think I'm not going to quote any stats on this, but electrical fires tend not to come from the batteries. They come somewhere else. You have sparks that can arise from anywhere in the system. Where you've got a hot near a ground right, you could have loose connections. You could get solar charge controllers, solar panels any of these components. A spark can start a fire. So the way that I look at it is there's electrical systems need to be well-maintained, just in general, because all of them have the risk of a fire, and the same goes for your house. It's just important to maintain all of your connections, all of your electrical systems.
Speaker 2:The way the battery fits into it is that the battery stores all the energy and can contribute to a fire pretty rapidly.
Speaker 2:In the end, a lithium cell is flammable, has a flammable electrolyte in it.
Speaker 2:So one thing that we found in our designs is if it's in a fire or in the proximity of the fire, it will not as readily contribute to the fire, so it won't burn as fast, whereas other lithium batteries can literally explode if they go into a thermal runaway situation. The way that we do it at Battle Born Batteries is we have cylindrical cells. They're called 26650 cells, which means they're 26 millimeters in diameter and they're all separated by an air gap, so that it's very, very difficult to even get to a thermal runaway situation, because each cell can dissipate heat so rapidly it could take itself out of the system before it even propagates to a neighboring cell. That design is really, really important. It's at the expense of the size. The batteries are a little bit bigger than if you had what's called pouch cells that are packed in as tightly as you can make them, but that is a far more dangerous situation. Not necessarily that the battery would start a fire, but if it's in a fire, then it could create a more catastrophic scenario.
Speaker 1:Good to know because, again, the whole thing with batteries that was the concern oh no, lithium batteries and they cause fires kind of thing. So I'm glad we're dispelling that myth that's out there. One of the big things when I'm looking at a company or a campground, whatever it is, I'm looking for reviews from RVers and I'm sure you've got some stories from customers. Can you tell me about one of those stories that really stuck with you from a customer?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to go back years to where I was actually interacting directly with customers, you know, because I've been a little bit removed from that.
Speaker 2:But we obviously get so much good feedback, um, from from customers.
Speaker 2:Um, if I had to pinpoint one in particular, it was a project that that we worked on with, uh, the John Lennon bus, the John Lennon educational tour bus, john Lennon Educational Tour Bus, which was basically a mobile recording studio, a project that was initiated by Yoko Ono, and they would go to underserved areas throughout the country and just teach them music and teach them how to record kids and have songwriting contests.
Speaker 2:And it was just such a cool project and I'm a Beatles freak, as a lot of people are, you know, grew up a very avid Beatles fan and I love John Lennon and being associated with anything having to do with John Lennon was just particularly exciting for me. But we put a pretty big system on that tour bus to power the entire recording studio. While, you know, while they're parked and while they're driving, the whole system charges from the alternator and also from rooftop solar and also from Rooftop Solar. And we actually did a video with Jeremy Renner doing a songwriting project with a group of kids here in Reno I think you can find that somewhere on YouTube and that project was so incredible and so awesome to be a part of, so that one stands out, I would say.
Speaker 1:What an incredible story and I love hearing the stories. That story in particular gave me goosebumps as a teacher I worked with at Risk Youth and you know, to have that ability to explore their musical talent. That's an incredible story and and you know something so impactful that is that. It's great. Thank you for sharing that so people could go to BattleboardBatteriescom to find out more. I know you guys attend a lot of the RV shows and rallies. Where can people see you guys? You know, come up, look at the batteries, talk to people If they're out and about. Where are you guys next? Do you even know? It's probably that department.
Speaker 2:It's not my department.
Speaker 1:So let me help you. I'm sure that there is something on the Battle Born Battery site, there's always something on the schedule, yeah. Yes, and I know that you guys always attend and we'll cut this out if it's not accurate, but you're always at America's largest RV show, which most people call the Hershey RV show.
Speaker 1:And that's September 10th to the 14th, so I want to point that out. If you guys are not going to be there, you'll let me know. We'll cut that out, but you are always there. I've been there for four years and have seen your displays there, as well as the Tampa RV show and again.
Speaker 1:I'm sure you're at rallies and events across the country throughout the year, so people can certainly find you, or people could just go to your website at battleboardbatteriescom the future what's in the future for Battleboard Batteries? Do you have some things you could share, maybe some top secret stuff?
Speaker 2:Well, I can't share top secret stuff but we do have we've let the cat out of the bag on a number of things, you know. First of all, I alluded to onshoring the production of the cells, so that is something that we, like I said, we've been capital constrained. It costs a lot of money to stand up a factory, but we have a way to do it cheaper and more efficient, using what's called a dry electrode process to make the anode and cathode, the different components of the batteries of the cells, and we have the patents on those processes globally, and so it's something that we have been so excited to deploy because it allows us to manufacture here in Nevada with resources lithium from the state of Nevada and be cost competitive with Asian manufactured cells, and that's huge. That's what we want to do, and this is without tariffs, without IRA credits, just apples to apples. If you use this process, we can manufacture cheaper in Nevada than using conventional processes manufactured in China, and that study was completed by a third party, so that is objectively true.
Speaker 2:The other thing from a technology standpoint, we figured out how to apply this same dry electrode process to what's called a solid state battery electrode process, to what's called a solid state battery, and by that I mean the flammable component that I alluded to before in a lithium ion battery is the electrolyte. That electrolyte would be 100% solid and not flammable when we have that cell. Then we can go back to that pouch cell stacked together as tight as you can get it, and you don't have to worry about fires or thermal runaway. So that's what we see ultimately. That's where we want to be going In the nearer term. We're going to continue to innovate on the products that we do sell. We've introduced our intelligence line so that our battery each individual battery can communicate wireless on a mesh network with other devices, with your cell phone, with you know, through CAN bus, and we're going to continue to develop all of the ancillary devices that are on that network. So that is something that is coming down the pike as well.
Speaker 1:Wow, that sounds incredible and I also want to let people know again. I tried to break it down for people to understand. I'm sure there are some people that are science background and got a lot out of this as well. You guys are on Facebook. You're on Instagram, tiktok, youtube. You have a YouTube channel. I highly recommend my listeners reach out. What are your thoughts, what are your questions, on any of your platforms. As always, people can reach out to me on Instagram or Facebook.
Speaker 1:At RV Life Podcast, we want to hear questions because I think having that conversation, it's like in the beginning when you went out to those influencers and people who are RVing to get the information. I always want people to keep sharing. What did they get out of this? Do they have additional questions? Because that's how you create and develop what you're doing A lot of incredible information. I know for me, I learned a lot on this call. I know for me, I'm going to have a lot of incredible information. I know for me, I learned a lot on this call. I know for me, I'm going to have a lot of additional questions. Yeah, we'll continue. As people have other questions and needs that they have, we'll continue to get those out there.
Speaker 1:I do have more questions. I don't want you to go anywhere. I don't want my listeners to go anywhere At this time of year. There's a lot going on, so I want to just give a couple updates. As we talked about, america's largest RV show is in Hershey, pennsylvania, from September 10th to the 14th. We have some great sponsors, including RV TV, and they have RVers Top Talent. You could apply to RVers top talent. You have a talent. Could you short you?
Speaker 2:absolutely, I've played in a couple rallies.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. So you have to record yourself. I'm going to get your people to do this. This is the first ever nationwide talent competition. So singing, comedian storytelling, juggling, whatever guitar playing, do you also sing?
Speaker 2:Not well.
Speaker 1:Oh, really, okay, Guitar playing. There is a $5,000 grand prize, so I'm going to put the link in the show notes. You're going to sign up? I didn't mention that in the beginning either, but that would be very cool.
Speaker 2:No, you didn't. That's new. No, no.
Speaker 1:It's required for the podcast episode and that $5,000 could go to research. I know it doesn't even touch the kinds of things you're doing, but it all helps. So for those people who are interested in showing off their talent, the link's going to be in the show notes. I'm really excited about this and RV TV can be found on DirecTV, Roku and various other places. But if you're going to be in Hershey and you let me know if you're going to be in Hershey at the show, because RV Life is doing their fourth annual RV Life Hershey After Party and that'll be on September 11th. It's an amazing event. It's going to be sold out. You'll get to meet a lot of RVers, so I'm inviting you. If you're going to be on the East Coast, yeah, back here, right in your neighborhood, right? So you should come back, that's right.
Speaker 1:Okay. So that's my personal invite. Okay, before we go anywhere, I've got to ask you a question. The question of the week is brought to you by Cool RV. I'm going to ask you this question and I am going to give you a few minutes to think about it, because I'm putting you on the spot. A few minutes to think about it, because I'm putting you on the spot. What is on your bucket list? So somebody you want to meet, a place you want to go, an experience you want to have anywhere in the world. Think about that, and I'm going to talk a little bit about Cool RV.
Speaker 1:Because it is getting hot, I was forced to turn the air conditioner on. I am in Philadelphia, outside of Philadelphia, and it is hot and humid. Cool RV is a game changer in RV air conditioner upgrades. This unit creates more cool air, more airflow and whisper quiet operation, so you'll continue to be comfortable and not have to deal with the noise in your small RV. Don't let the hot weather ruin your trip. Visit CoolRVcom, and that's K-O-O-L-R-Vcom, okay. So do you have a place, a person, an experience that you want to have?
Speaker 2:Well, it'll probably be music-oriented. It'll probably be jamming with somebody playing guitar with somebody, and there's a long list of folks on my list that it would be jamming with another guitar player.
Speaker 1:So who would be on the top of your list? Who would be some of the people you would want to jam with? Let's get it out there.
Speaker 2:Okay, All right Well.
Speaker 1:I'm really putting you on the spot.
Speaker 2:The ones that are still alive. They're getting older, so I'd have to throw Eric Clapton, Joe Walsh. I'd probably throw in some of the Allman brothers, like Warren Haynes, Derek Trucks. You know, there's that sort of blues, rock and roll style. Those guys have their own styles that you know. I would love to see firsthand. I mean, I've seen them, but I'd love to be able to jam. I don't know, Is that too much to ask?
Speaker 1:No, listen, that's what the bucket list is about. It's asking for whatever you want and putting it out there and making it happen. I have a bucket list a mile long and I just keep checking things off, so that's why I'd love to ask that question. You are the first person that talked about a person you wanted to do something with, so thank you, and certainly, if you get back out to the East Coast, let me know. You are on the West Coast, right? You're in Nevada.
Speaker 2:Reno Nevada Yep.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's what I thought. Okay, so, but if you ever get out to the East Coast would love to meet up with you and sit and chat with you further. You're such an interesting person. I want to thank you for being on I am not done because I want to talk about the feature campground before I let you go and that's Carolina Shores RV Resort in Myrtle Beach, south Carolina.
Speaker 1:It is a Thousand Trails Park, but you do not need to be a member. You need to check this place out because it looks incredible. I have never been there. It's got oceanfront RV park and it's got so much nearby. There's so much in the Myrtle Beach area. People really need to check that area out if they've never been. Of course, the campground has full hookups, so don't necessarily need the big off-grid lithium battery, but in the travels in between they do have cabin rentals, so for someone like me that doesn't have the RV right now, that's a great place to go. They have 813 sites, a 7.7 rating on the RV Life Campground Review site with 14 reviews.
Speaker 1:You can visit this campground and check out everything there is to know about it by going to rvlifecom. They have all these beautiful pictures of the place, all the amenities, everything you need to know about this place. The nice thing is, when you go to campgroundsrvlifecom, you can book your site right from that page. You don't have to go off of it. Campground Reviews is part of the RV Life Pro suite of products. If you aren't already an RV Life member, there is a 25% discount in the show notes. Check them out at campgroundsrvlifecom. Again, I want people to go to battleboardbatteriescom. Check you guys out on Facebook, instagram, tiktok and YouTube and this may be out of your wheelhouse, but I checked that out on your website. All of that information's on your website. The website will be linked in the show notes and I want to thank you so much for so much incredible information.
Speaker 2:It was my pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me on the podcast, Patty.
Speaker 1:You're welcome and I want to thank my listeners and remind you life's a journey Live each day to the fullest, without regrets. I'm Patty Hunt and you have been listening to the RV Life Podcast. Thank you.